Clutterham, Claire MP

Ms CLUTTERHAM: Thank you very much. That was an extensive answer. I will read the transcript of that answer! I have one more question. I noted in the summary of your submission reference to five Virginia class submarines and the need to procure those given the long lead times with SSN-AUKUS. I just wondered what your thoughts were. My sense is that you don't think that the LOTE program with respect to the CCSMs is going to be good enough or provide us with the capability we need, hence your suggestion for five from the Virginia class. Dr Coyne : I'm happy to take that one on notice for one of my learned colleagues at ASPI who specialises in submarines and the acquisition of submarines. From a general sense, I go back to my response to the deputy chair's question earlier. It's about impact and systems, not necessarily absolute numbers and asking: 'Is it five submarines or seven submarines in 20 years? Is it four in 30?' At the end of the day, it was uncrewed maritime vessels that were used by Ukraine to force the Russians to move their fleet out of the Black Sea. So my viewpoint is probably somewhat divergent in the sense that I think we should be looking at strategic intent and the effect that we're trying to achieve and not necessarily, 'Is it four or five submarines?'