Wong, Sen Penny

Senator WONG: Let's not get into it. I don't want to go back into the weeds here. I'm a layperson. I don't know as much about submarines as you. It just seems to me that it's one thing to refurbish existing parts. It's another thing to replace. I would have assumed that both the volume and the risk profile of the latter—that is, new parts being put in—would be higher. Mr Sammut : I'm not saying that—