Senator WHISH-WILSON: But how are you going to assess that as a department? I'll rephrase that: how will the department assess it? You've got $12 million over three years. At the end of those three years, will you be in a position, from a regulatory point of view, to say, 'Yes, you can proceed with this project because under the safeguard we're comfortable that you'll meet your scope 1 emissions,

Senator HODGINS-MAY: None at all. Can you confirm your role in carbon capture and storage policy and engagement with international partners? Mr Isbister : Again, I think that's a question for the department of climate change and energy.

Senator WATERS: I might start on the two minutes. In relation to the $1.2 billion for carbon capture and storage and hydrogen, it's $1.2 billion from 2021-22 to create what's called a technology co-investment facility. What is that? Ms Evans : It's an appropriation which will enable the department to work with developing hydrogen hubs, and a separate program designed to support carbon capture and

Senator WHISH-WILSON: Just to confirm, though, are you using the National Carbon Accounting System, the FullCAM model? Mr Galeano : I'd have to confirm that for you, but I'm pretty sure that's correct, yes. Let me check for you, though.

Senator HUME: What about carbon capture and storage? Dr Arndt : I don't know whether we have exposure to that. We may well through the private equity or venture capital program. We have had similar exposures in the past.

Senator HANSON-YOUNG: It's very, very expensive. Senator McAllister: Indeed, the advice internationally is that the deployment of carbon capture and storage is most likely to be economically viable in very hard to abate sectors, where there are no alternatives available. The government is interested in setting up a regulatory framework so that, if there are commercial proponents who wish to undert

Senator CADELL: For those watching at home, your paper states that carbon leakage undermines efforts to reduce emissions in relevant sectors, and the literature suggests that domestic efforts to reduce emissions are typically partially offset by a resulting increase in net global. So shut down here and go somewhere else is basically that point? Ms Johnson: That's correct.

Senator WATERS: Thank you. Do you already have a sense of who might apply, or is that a little premature at this stage? Ms Zerger : Not who will apply—but the program does have a bit of a different focus, away from CCS deployment itself. It was more about research, development and demonstration of novel or emerging carbon dioxide capture and utilisation technologies, with direct air capture being

Senator HANSON ( Queensland — Leader of Pauline Hanson's One Nation ) ( 13:11 ): You talked about amendments to the protocol in 2009 and 2011. Where has this carbon capture and storage worked anywhere else in the world? Just tell me one example if you can. I'd like more.

Senator GREEN: I was not aware that there was a section of the department that had experience in carbon capture and storage. That is the team that have expertise and experience in that technology? Ms Evans : That's right. Maybe the reason you're not familiar with it is because this estimates committee typically deals with what used to be the environment part of the portfolio. The team I'm referrin

Senator HANSON ( Queensland — Leader of Pauline Hanson's One Nation ) ( 10:51 ): You're putting up a regulation about carbon capture and storage. You're forcing these companies to pay carbon credits. If they don't do something about this and put in carbon capture and storage, they're going to have to pay carbon credits. Is that true?

Senator McALLISTER ( New South Wales — Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy ) ( 12:10 ): Thanks, Senator. The government has made no commitments to other governments or to proponents about financial support for carbon capture and storage associated with the Barossa project. I also indicated that I would seek a more precise formulation of the new Carbon Capture Technologies Program. I c

Senator WHISH-WILSON: I'm not disputing that. Can we talk about Norway? As you said earlier tonight, that project has been around for decades. Sorry, Minister, but this is an example that Mr Jeremenko has put up. This was started in the nineties, and, at the time it was brought out, it was going to revolutionise the oil and gas industry with carbon capture and storage. Why is it that it's the only

Senator McALLISTER ( New South Wales — Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy ) ( 10:51 ): Senator Hanson, the bill before us creates a set of regulatory obligations for companies that choose to initiate a carbon capture and storage project. They may do that for a range of reasons, including to meet their obligations under the safeguard legislation. That was a debate that took place earl

Senator CICCONE: How about with respect to carbon storage as well? Do you also see what else is happening out there internationally? Dr Greenville : We haven't done any specific work at this point on carbon storage.

Senator WONG: CN3803290. Ms Foster : While we're looking for the number, Mr Gilmartin, is our chief operating officer and he is not aware of any carbon credits being purchased. We've asked another officer if they have any information.

Senator WHISH-WILSON: That's coming back to what carbon accounting is, right? That's what carbon risk disclosure is all about. Mr Neal : There would be dozens of ways that people may choose to go about doing that on lots of different bases. I'm happy to give you an estimate.

Senator WHISH-WILSON: I won't go into Senator Watt's line of questioning, but I suppose that is part of it. Typically would your business case take into account the social costs of any scope 1, 2 or 3 carbon emissions from an investment like this in opening up new gas fields, given we are in a climate emergency? Dr Bacon : I think it will take all of those things into account: the economic implica

Senator BROCKMAN ( Western Australia ) ( 19:24 ): I could be wrong, but my understanding is that will be captured if a carbon unit is involved. But if a mining company or a big oil and gas company buys up a piece of farm agricultural land and uses it as a direct offset, is there anything in this legislation or other government bills in planning that would capture that?

Senator HODGINS-MAY: I'm hearing all these different examples. I'm not an expert on CCS, and it sounds like not many people are, but all of these geologies are so different. What makes one successful—and I put 'successful' in quotations because I think there's a big question as to whether it's actually cost-efficient—doesn't offer any guarantee that in another geology it's going to work. I'm keen