Senator SHOEBRIDGE: We're talking about the history of UK designed platforms, which require very significant amendments to operate in an Australian environment. Another example we could point to would be the Hunter class frigates, which have cost an unknown amount of money to be readjusted to Australia's needs. Vice Adm. Mead : If we just stick to the submarines, as I said, the Oberon was a 1960s

Mr BURNELL: Just going to your opening statement and your support for this treaty, the advantages of nuclear submarines—you seem to be highly supportive of them. Can you just outline what your thoughts are as to why this makes it a must-have for Australia's mix for our defence capabilities? Dr Harries : I guess I have more of a layman's view of submarines, so I can't give you expert opinion, but,

Mr BURNELL: Civilian transport industry. Dr Harries : Certainly, there is an option in the long term for nuclear power for civil maritime users. There's quite a lot of interest, and I think there's a new agreement going on with the IAEA at the moment to update past agreements. There's a possibility of having nuclear powered civilian merchant marine, but I think that's a very different issue from t

Mr WALLACE ( Fisher ) ( 17:07 ): I rise in support of the Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023. There's no greater responsibility that a government has than to defend its people—to defend Australians. I was and still am very proud to have been part of a government that delivered—that created AUKUS. I want to particularly single out former prime minister Scott Morrison

Senator HENDERSON: Can I just put to you that the DSR explicitly makes clear that this base will be for nuclear-powered submarines, so there's no question about that. Senator McAllister: I think, again, you are asking Vice Admiral Mead to speak about responsibilities that are beyond his immediate area of responsibility. The officials who explained to you that this work sat with them were here just

Senator WONG: Does it contemplate the decision to apply nuclear propelled submarines? Mr Dalton : It had language in the draft that said we were on a [inaudible] to a program to develop the optimal pathway for nuclear powered submarines.

Senator O'SULLIVAN: Thank you. I want to ask you about AUKUS—the 4,000 places allocated to the Nuclear-Powered Submarine Student Pathways program. I understand it's split across 16 universities. You've been able to provide us a breakdown of courses at each university that the places have been allocated to. I've got that here on SQ24-000335. I take it you've got that. Mr Rimmer: Yes.

Senator PATERSON: In terms of range am I right in understanding that a nuclear powered submarine has virtually unlimited range, particularly the newer nuclear powered submarines that use highly enriched uranium? Mr Dewar : Yes, my understanding is that range limits are not about the boat; it's about feeding crews and those sorts of things that become the challenges the longer you remain underwater

Senator SHOEBRIDGE: The quote here I have here is four. Dr Ioannou : In three cases, a decision was made not to publish on this occasion, and the four were those two categories we discussed—that group made up of the future submarine and the Hunter class, and the second category was the overlander and Pacific patrol boat.

Senator WONG: What I don't understand is: we are going down the nuclear propulsion path for sound capability imperatives, right? But we are now saying that we will have an even older submarine, which, presumably, in terms of the vulnerabilities associated with their capability, will be—I will rephrase. Australia has chosen to explore the nuclear propulsion path because of a capability imperative—t

Senator McDONALD: Are there differences between storing high-level waste from nuclear submarines and storing high-level waste from small modular reactors? Mr Jenkinson : Did you say 'high-level waste from small modular reactors'?

Senator PATERSON: What are the strategic advantages of modern nuclear powered submarine technology? Mr Dewar : It goes to that range and stealth manoeuvrability, which are the key characteristics that nuclear powered submarines have. That was behind the decision to pursue that, in cooperation with the United States and the United Kingdom.

Senator WONG: My apologies. Thank you, Vice Admiral. Vice Adm. Mead : The Prime Minister made that statement—before the end of the next decade. We have provided advice to him that we are looking for early delivery of that submarine.

Senator COLLINS: Absolutely. I believe, though, that we are preparing for nuclear-powered submarines, so are any of them able to host a Virginia-class submarine? Ms Perkins : In the past, a number of existing sites have hosted visiting nuclear-powered submarines. The Chief of Navy, who will be much more qualified to respond, is here. Vice Adm. Hammond : We have hosted Virginia-class submarines at

Senator WONG: Obviously you can clarify on notice, Mr Sammut, but 2042—just so I'm clear about what your answer means—will be the year in which the majority of our submarine capability is the Attack class? Mr Sammut : Based on a nominal drumbeat of one boat every two years. That is yet to be decided by government, but that is a nominal planning basis upon which we are looking at delivery of the At

Senator WONG: I'm going to start with submarines. Mr Sammut, do I call you 'Mister' or do I call you 'Rear Admiral' still? Mr Sammut : No, I am Mr Sammut.

Mr GOSLING ( Solomon ) ( 13:37 ): The successful delivery of AUKUS, the technology sharing agreement, is of vital national interest and it is only fitting that there be a bipartisan group in this place to support it—an AUKUS caucus, if you will. As we know, pillar 1 of AUKUS will see Australia take delivery of three US Virginia class submarines by the 2030s and the first SSN-AUKUS built in Austral

Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Whether it is Hunter frigates or offshore patrol vessels, this is like some kind of exercise in futility, or some sort of cheap version of a parody. Do you understand how little confidence there is that the Navy can handle something like a nuclear submarine when you cannot even get a patrol boat in the water? Rear Adm. Malcolm : We have delivered six patrol boats through Austal

Senator WONG: Commodore Brown, you are the director-general of submarine capability, correct? Cdre Brown : I have been working as the director-general of submarine capability. But since the DSU was released I have rolled into a new role looking at force structure requirements for undersea warfare, which includes submarines by their nature.